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Post by tiddles on May 18, 2012 17:21:06 GMT 1
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fedup
Senior Member
Posts: 245
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Post by fedup on May 18, 2012 22:39:45 GMT 1
Is shocking that people are only sentenced to 12 years for cold bloodied murder what deterrent is that?
As Tiddles says the Law is a Ass.
Should have been life in both cases without parole. Where is the protection for other members of the public when these scum are released?
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Post by linda wallace on May 18, 2012 23:16:48 GMT 1
and to think they probably will be released in half their jail term.....its scandalous
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Post by broxiboy75 on May 19, 2012 11:03:18 GMT 1
Tiddles, don't be so silly and blinkered. If the Tele is being misleading here, so is BBC, STV, Sky, The Sun..Scotsman, Herald.....EVERY paper reports the sentence handed down from the bench. IF they said they got six years each, THAT would be misleading. We may not like the paper or have any time for it, but lets keep the criticism factual. Fedup, read the article, it was culpable homicide, which isn't murder. Completely different crime with different punishments. From reading some of the case though I think the verdict was about right. The question of letting someone out of jail after half their term is another matter though....THAT is a farce. The fact we need to give incentives for people to behave in prison is the real issue here.
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Post by tiddles on May 19, 2012 12:29:29 GMT 1
They still said they got 24 years which is not correct. Since when did court sentences be reported in aggregate? Yes, it's not just the Tele but it still pisses me off. There are too many cases of obvious, provable murder that are being downgraded to culpable homicide. Broxi, you are far too defensive of the Tele.
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fedup
Senior Member
Posts: 245
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Post by fedup on May 19, 2012 22:44:19 GMT 1
Tiddles, don't be so silly and blinkered. If the Tele is being misleading here, so is BBC, STV, Sky, The Sun..Scotsman, Herald.....EVERY paper reports the sentence handed down from the bench. IF they said they got six years each, THAT would be misleading. We may not like the paper or have any time for it, but lets keep the criticism factual. Fedup, read the article, it was culpable homicide, which isn't murder. Completely different crime with different punishments. From reading some of the case though I think the verdict was about right. The question of letting someone out of jail after half their term is another matter though....THAT is a farce. The fact we need to give incentives for people to behave in prison is the real issue here. Culpable homicide or Murder what is the difference the fact is these people where responsible of the unnatural death of this person which in my book is Murder. It's FACT Broxi that the PF downgrades charges to get a conviction or accepts a guilty plead on lesser charges.
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fedup
Senior Member
Posts: 245
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Post by fedup on May 19, 2012 22:46:38 GMT 1
They still said they got 24 years which is not correct. Since when did court sentences be reported in aggregate? Yes, it's not just the Tele but it still pisses me off. There are too many cases of obvious, provable murder that are being downgraded to culpable homicide. Broxi, you are far too defensive of the Tele. Tiddles, do you think Broxi might work for the Tele? Would make sense the way he is always defending that rag of a paper.
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Post by linda wallace on May 19, 2012 22:54:29 GMT 1
anyone defending the tele in my book should get a wee kick up the rear end lol
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Post by Wee Jock on May 19, 2012 23:03:09 GMT 1
50p for a 9mm round, £1 for the both of them.
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Post by tiddles on May 20, 2012 14:39:15 GMT 1
Or thiopentone sodium followed by a bolus injection of potassium and a large hammer tae the heid
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Post by Wee Jock on May 20, 2012 15:01:51 GMT 1
My methods cheaper Tidds
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Post by tiddles on May 20, 2012 16:05:38 GMT 1
yes and faster, who wants to waste time on vermin like that
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Post by Wee Jock on May 21, 2012 12:27:38 GMT 1
Quick hose down afterwards and on to the next.
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Post by broxiboy75 on May 21, 2012 14:03:16 GMT 1
I actually work within the court system, not the Tele, so frankly am more qualified than any of you to speak on this one, and at least I can do it objectively. If fiscals didn't accept pleas etc, then the courts would simply grind to a halt because of the level of crime in this country. It is called common sense, and while it may lead to some lighter sentences, the alternative is another 20 courts, with the associated expenses, maybe five more prisons and a 20p hike in your income tax to fund it all. Now who fancies that? Not me. So while it is far from perfect, accept the justice system and its limitations. I actually agree that punishments are too lenient, but that isn't because sheriffs and judges want to keep people out of jail, it is because they are working with one hand tied behind their back, AND have a duty to the 'do-good' brigade to try and reform people past reforming. As for the Tele, I don't have any problem with what seems, to me in my limited experience of it, a decent local evening newspaper. I find it quite amusing that one of the administrators on here runs it into the ground...then rings it to highlight a local issue of concern! This is called hypocrisy I believe. From my perspective within the court system, it also does a decent job of covering what is happening in Greenock's court, without any political biase too....!
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Post by tiddles on May 21, 2012 15:35:22 GMT 1
Well Broxi, my original comment was the assertion that 24 years had been given to the killers was suggestive of a sentence of 24 years each. However, when we read the article in detail we find that it was 12 years each not including automatic remissions. I accept that the Tele is not alone in indulging in this kind of thing but it is nonetheless, somewhat misleading. If for example, I buy two TVs from Comet (aye right!) and they tell me I have two years guarantee and then subsequently I discover that what they meant was that each TV had ONE year's guarantee, would you not agree that I would have good cause to complain about being misled.
The big daily national papers and the BBC do the same thing. Take the recent Pakistani rape gang conviction, the BBC quoted the sentences as simply 35 years or whatever but neglected to break it down for if they had done, we'd have seen that a number of them got very light sentences indeed.
As to reduced pleas, I am not a lawyer (I'd be much richer man if I was) but I cannot help but notice there has been a steep rise in the number of murder cases being reduced to, 'culpable homicide' which I presume attracts a much lesser sentence upon conviction. I cannot help but think that word has been passed down to the Fiscals and Judges from the Crown Office to have them keep the number of lengthy custodial sentences low. You might deny that and you might even be right but from the man in the street's point of view, this is what appears to be happening
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Post by tiddles on May 21, 2012 15:53:36 GMT 1
I fear I must take issue with your assertion that the Tele is, "a decent local evening newspaper". Let me assure you in the strongest terms that by NO stretch of the imagination is this newspaper other than a tawdry, provincial tabloid dedicated to nurturing the Labour Party even when it's councillors break the law.
There hasn't been a decent piece of investigative journalism from the Tele for many, many years. They are content to depend upon the attention-seeking rantings of the Facebook crowd and the council's mendacious press releases. They are also given to vicious and spiteful actions and think nothing of destroying people on a whim. Murdoch could learn from them.
If I am right in thinking that you are referring to Linda, our co-founder. First of all, Linda is not a committee member of her model yacht club (one of the oldest in the whole country) and therefore was not in a position to call on the Tele. She did however, make photographs taken by her husband, our own Jock available to the reporter who attended at the request of the committee.
Now, you will see that so far, nothing has appeared on the Tele site and whilst there might be some small report on the matter concerned eventually, it will not be favourable to the club. Inverclyde Council have been dying to dispose of the Murdieston dams for years because the land when fully drained, as it is now thanks to the machinations of the council, will afford an excellent return. There's quite a bit of money to be made by selling land for social or private housing even in these dark days. The whole thing stinks and it is a story that any decent, local newspaper should be giving in depth coverage.
Linda and Jock are many things to many people, but they are NOT and NEVER will be hypocrites and I am proud to say that I count them amongst my friends.
After the BBC have finished their imminent coverage and the various environmental groups have expressed their views, watch the Tele come snivelling round. Notice that our dear MSP, Mr McNeil and his Westminster counterpart have had no comment to make.
We are victims, NOT citizens
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fedup
Senior Member
Posts: 245
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Post by fedup on May 21, 2012 16:55:51 GMT 1
I actually work within the court system, not the Tele, so frankly am more qualified than any of you to speak on this one, and at least I can do it objectively. If fiscals didn't accept pleas etc, then the courts would simply grind to a halt because of the level of crime in this country. It is called common sense, and while it may lead to some lighter sentences, the alternative is another 20 courts, with the associated expenses, maybe five more prisons and a 20p hike in your income tax to fund it all. Now who fancies that? Not me. So while it is far from perfect, accept the justice system and its limitations. I actually agree that punishments are too lenient, but that isn't because sheriffs and judges want to keep people out of jail, it is because they are working with one hand tied behind their back, AND have a duty to the 'do-good' brigade to try and reform people past reforming. As for the Tele, I don't have any problem with what seems, to me in my limited experience of it, a decent local evening newspaper. I find it quite amusing that one of the administrators on here runs it into the ground...then rings it to highlight a local issue of concern! This is called hypocrisy I believe. From my perspective within the court system, it also does a decent job of covering what is happening in Greenock's court, without any political biase too....! I will agree with you the law is a ass in this country but I for one would be quite happy for a rise in my tax if it meant people convicted of serious crimes where locked away for a substantial period of time. After all in the past it has happened to many times when someone who has previously been convicted of a serious crime has been released and they have committed the same crime again. So I would say if necessary a small rise in tax would be nothing if it made the streets of Scotland safer. Just out of interest Broxi where do you get the figure of a 20p in the pound rise in tax to cover building five new prisons and courts? As we are only discussing one of the most serious crimes you can commit.
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Post by tiddles on May 21, 2012 17:11:33 GMT 1
If I was to embezzle substantial sums from our practice and was subsequently caught, without doubt I'd be for the jile and no mistake. I would not be a danger to society and I would have not committed any violent act yet I'd still be imprisoned.
Now I'm not justifying theft or embezzlement but it irks me in extremis when I see the same evil scum appearing week after week in the court answering the same charges and yet all they get are fines, which never get paid, and meaningless probation orders. If you're a little street deadbeat you can biff old grannies to your heart's content but you'll not get sent to chokey where you belong.
We have to take a very close look at our system of lawful punishment, it's no use persisting with a protocol that actually inflames the situation. People have been jailed for not paying their TV licence, not paying the poll/council tax and Tommy Sheridan whether guilty or not was banged up when a substantial fine would have done him more harm.
We seem hung up on a certain vision of what a prison or detention centre should look like. We see large solid buildings with barred windows surrounded by a razor-wire fence. Of course, these buildings cost millions to build so we seldom get new ones. What's wrong with building camp-style jails? Wooden huts surrounded by similar wire and located somewhere desolate. There would be very few little junkie rats terribly keen to be slammed in there.
If you want to see what I mean, take a look at the shitey hovels our Armed Forces have to live in out in Afghanistan. If our soldiers have to cope with that kind of squalor, why not some violent little scumbag.
And of course why not let Group4 or one of those ghastly companies run them and if any of their staff gets caught bringing in drugs, they join the prisoners.
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Post by linda wallace on May 21, 2012 21:08:35 GMT 1
. I find it quite amusing that one of the administrators on here runs it into the ground...then rings it to highlight a local issue of concern! This is called hypocrisy I believe. i find you very insulting when calling myself and jocky hypocrites...we do our best.....as tidds TOLD YOU......i am not on the committee of our club so have to go with our constitution and NOT break the rules governing our club.....everything was done by our ex chairman and we backed him up.... to be honest i dont give a damm whether you work for the court system or not....possible cleaner but use your brains first before making comments like that.
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Post by samfregreenock on May 21, 2012 21:10:55 GMT 1
I actually work within the court system, not the Tele, so frankly am more qualified than any of you to speak on this one, and at least I can do it objectively. If fiscals didn't accept pleas etc, then the courts would simply grind to a halt because of the level of crime in this country. It is called common sense, and while it may lead to some lighter sentences, the alternative is another 20 courts, with the associated expenses, maybe five more prisons and a 20p hike in your income tax to fund it all. Now who fancies that? Not me. So while it is far from perfect, accept the justice system and its limitations. I actually agree that punishments are too lenient, but that isn't because sheriffs and judges want to keep people out of jail, it is because they are working with one hand tied behind their back, AND have a duty to the 'do-good' brigade to try and reform people past reforming. As for the Tele, I don't have any problem with what seems, to me in my limited experience of it, a decent local evening newspaper. I find it quite amusing that one of the administrators on here runs it into the ground...then rings it to highlight a local issue of concern! This is called hypocrisy I believe. From my perspective within the court system, it also does a decent job of covering what is happening in Greenock's court, without any political biase too....! I see you still haven't paid the slightest bit of attention to any of my posts on the Tele. It was once an excellent local evening newspaper, in fact so much so that it won awards and had a huge circulation compared to what would seem bigger city evening papers. Those days are long gone and not due to teh rise of teh internet, it was on the slide long before that You may remember teh murder in the chapel in Glasgoiw of teh young polish lassie, her boyfriend and his wife stayed a couple of doors up from me. We had various newspapers camped out for days on end taking photies etc The boyfriend and his wife had a shrine to her in teh window of candles photies etc (weird I know) Anyways 3/4 days after the nationals turned up, up rolls the Tele. And I quote their "journalist" hello we're from the Greenock Telegraph, can you tell us what's going on? Whut do you lot not raed/listen/watch the news, it's been going on for a couple of weeks Tele - well we only found out about it when the shrine photie appeared in the daily record, someon ein teh office read that it was doon here in inverkip. US - FFS DOH! DOH! and thrice DOH! The Herald (I'm repeating maself here for the hard of reading) broke the story abouit teh coonsil wasying millions on teh future operating model, it took 3 days for the Tele to even mention it in passing They do not print stories or investigative pieces that the coonsil won't like They do not take local politicians to task on their decisions to find out more - for example our erstwhile new MP promised 100 jobs in 100 days when elected (in the Tele) Despite being prompted that he has failed mioserably many times over - they haven't even mentioned it Even the Paisley Daily Express does more investigative stuff than the Tele and that paper is completely dire As for it reporting the goings on at the local courts - complete pish, all you have to do is slip tegh "reporter" a few quid and your name doesn't appear in the paper
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Post by linda wallace on May 21, 2012 21:13:48 GMT 1
an update tidds on the dam the council were around today checking the level of the dam as the council got a phone call from the telegraph, we think the story might be in tomorrow finger's crossed....its risen 6 inches in 6 weeks....our last event is in august and it looks as if that is not going ahead either due to the stupidity of the council.....this has cost our club considerably.. the guy that is dealing with the bbc said he will wait till the telegraph print and see what comes out of it first and if needed he will phone the guy you gave us.... we notice the
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Post by Wee Jock on May 21, 2012 21:14:40 GMT 1
I have a copy of the deeds for the Murdieston Dam which sets out the councils duty and care towards said dam, over the years the council has failed to maintain that duty of care.
The wildlife has all but disappeared and in late summer the place stinks to high heaven due to the algae content in the water. These issues have all been raised with the council and yet nothing has been done. Whilst the water level is so low it's now the ideal time to carry out the maintenance that is so badly needed, what has the council done, removed about 4 bags of rubbish.
The committee of the club as tidds has said called the Tele, NOT Linda, I was asked to provide pictures which I have done.
So Broxiboy anytime you want to apologise for your comment regarding her being a hypocrite she'll be waiting
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fedup
Senior Member
Posts: 245
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Post by fedup on May 21, 2012 21:40:17 GMT 1
. I find it quite amusing that one of the administrators on here runs it into the ground...then rings it to highlight a local issue of concern! This is called hypocrisy I believe. i find you very insulting when calling myself and jocky hypocrites...we do our best.....as tidds TOLD YOU......i am not on the committee of our club so have to go with our constitution and NOT break the rules governing our club.....everything was done by our ex chairman and we backed him up.... to be honest i dont give a damm whether you work for the court system or not....possible cleaner but use your brains first before making comments like that. Obviously Broxi hasn't read your other posts. Though he does seem capable to point out to other people when they don't read his posts correctly.
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Post by linda wallace on May 21, 2012 23:47:23 GMT 1
exactly...maybe he should go to specsavers
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rod2mc
Amber Member
Posts: 442
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Post by rod2mc on May 23, 2012 14:19:27 GMT 1
This is called hypocrisy I believe. From my perspective within the court system, it also does a decent job of covering what is happening in Greenock's court, without any political biase too....! what do you mean, like the people who seem to be able very easily to keep there name out of the tele when they are up in court. Plenty of examples of that! aye right
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Post by linda wallace on May 23, 2012 18:11:10 GMT 1
yea loads
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Post by linda wallace on May 23, 2012 18:18:24 GMT 1
well our article went into the tele today.....council say that the water level's are sufficient for the wildlife even though heaslehead wildlife have said that it isnt.....the council are supposed to contact the wildlife people if work is taking place because of the damage that can be done to the wildlife.... we new that the council were going to say that.....what a load of rubbish........the fight continues i think......oh the dam has risen 5 inches in 6 weeks....WOW!!!
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Post by tiddles on May 23, 2012 18:20:17 GMT 1
FILTHY, LYING SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think your committee needs to ramp this up now. I shall find out some more agencies that will be happy to sink the boot in.
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Post by tiddles on May 23, 2012 18:25:14 GMT 1
And of course, our dear local, community newspaper makes the article a, 'pay for' one. I'll rejoice when I see the bailiffs arriving in Crawfurd Street and their plastic sign taken down and tipped. The Greenock Telegraph is worthless.
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Post by linda wallace on May 23, 2012 23:02:14 GMT 1
so will i tidds
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