Leaders' tribute to late MP

[tiddles]

www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/greenock/articles/2012/05/10/428696-leaders-tribute-to-late-mp/

I reckon a beatification is due very soon, we'll need to inform the Holy See.

OK, he's dead and he died young but that's it, let him rest in peace without this posthumous worship of a VERY ordinary man. He was a lousy MP although not quite a lousy as the present clown, but lousy just the same. And describing him as, "an exceptionally kind man" is rather wide of the mark and I bet the the innocent people of Palestine don't quite go along with it either.

He was an arch-Blairite to the extent that Blair actually had to pass a law to let Cairns stand. He fully supported the welfare purges we are seeing now all the while oozing about the poor folk who have to suffer it. He was a hypocrite and claimed to be a man of the people yet he was merely one of the North London chattering classes.

[broxiboy75]

Have you never heard of not speaking ill of the dead. Have a word with yourself, bile like that is unwarranted and unneccesary.

[tiddles]

Of course I have heard of, 'not speaking ill of the dead' but it doesn't mean I have to adhere to such a convenient and hypocritical maxim.

Cairns was a waste of space and a hypocrite. He was personally quite pleasant to speak to as long as the conversation went his way.

And if I start having words with myself, my wife will have me sectioned.

I have an absolute right to criticise whoever I like whether they are dead or alive. Oh and lest you think otherwise, I did tell Cairns to his face what I thought of him on more than one occasion. You Broxiboy, don't have to agree with me

[broxiboy75]

Indeed that is your right, but why spout such bile on a public forum designed to discuss local matters of importance. Surely something of this ilk would be more worthy of everyone's time.

[tiddles]

Well, you see this forum was created to afford anyone who has something to say about more or less anything to do so without censorship. I feel very strongly about Cairns' performance as an MP and his, in my opinion, hypocrisy in his views on the socially divisive policies of New Labour.

If you don't like what I say, then you need not read my stuff but you have done the right thing in that you have started a debate with me and I applaud you for doing so.

[broxiboy75]

We shall agree to disagree on this one then.

[tiddles]

Indeed but I did enjoy the debate. I fear we don't get enough of it on here.

[samfregreenock]

Indeed he was a shite MP - nothing but a Bliarite broon-noser.

If you look at his voting record, it is blatantly obvious, apart from that he was a zionist and a hypocrit

[tiddles]

Sums him up as far as I'm concerned, well said Sammy

[jimwatson]

I have/had no time for the politics of the man. He was a self-serving greasy pole climber of the worst order.

He could also be very personable. I remember sitting at a dinner table having a few beers and he was congratulated by another diner for his "promotion" to being a Government Minister. I snorted into my Guinness and opined that some would regard it as a demotion. "Why would anyone do that?" said David naively...well says I, didn't you used to be a Catholic Priest and in some eyes being a minister is below that....and to his credit he did laugh at the proposition.

Another occasion had him telling a tale about visiting the new Wembley Stadium. I imparted a wonderful piece of general knowledge in that the last band to play live at the old Wembley was Bon Jovi and the first band scheduled to play at the new Wembley was Bon Jovi. Mr Cairns merely stated that this was not interesting trivia about Wembley but evidence that I knew too much about Bon Jovi....

[linda wallace]

May 10, 2012 15:32:46 GMT 1 broxiboy75 said:

Indeed that is your right, but why spout such bile on a public forum designed to discuss local matters of importance. Surely something of this ilk would be more worthy of every one's time.

when the telerag started censoring what people were saying on their online paper we were getting fed up with it, if you disagreed with them you were censored....this is why this forum was set up...you might not like the comments made but as tidds said, if you don't like don't read....

i am one that quite honestly couldnt stand david cairs as i thought he was a wee twirp.

[neartic]

broxiboy if you like cairns that much why dont you go to 64-66 west blackhall st and see if ye can have a wee chat with him with the praying people

[linda wallace]

or go to number 1 south street were you could always have a wee chinwag with him lol

[broxiboy75]

And those comments aren't at all distasteful...you should be ashamed of yourselves. Not agreeing with his politics or what kind of person he was is one thing, but spitting on his grave is disgraceful. I take it none of you have lost a loved one, so wouldn't bother if those comments were posted about your mother or father?

[neartic]

if you had read other posts we dont like spitting, there was two labour arse lickers used to write in the tele forum i take it you were one of them

[broxiboy75]

Actually I'm not a Labour supporter, but my political allegiance has nothing to do with common decency, which you obviously lack.

[tiddles]

Broxi, I think you have to look beyond the comments and try to understand why Cairns attracts such derision and bile.

Since his premature death, there have been attempts to deify him whilst overlooking his all too obvious failings. He was an appalling MP and he did less than nothing for his constituents. Of course he was good at showing his chubby, little boyish smile to all the old dears who no doubt called him, "a lovely boy". he also knew how to, 'schmooze' the local Labour Party mainly because he possessed more than the usual single brain cell.

I met him on several occasions and whilst I found him to be fairly affable he did not convince me that behind the puckish grin there was anything other than self interest.

I am not a Catholic so I am making the following comment from the outside, looking in. In becoming a Catholic priest, Cairns undertook a long and arduous process that culminated in his making a profound and solemn commitment to his faith for the rest of his life. Now we are all human and we are all weak and we do have the right to change our minds but to abrogate such stringent vows in order to become a politician is to my mind, beneath contempt. Religion and politics should never be mixed, it is like combining shit with sugar.

In choosing politics over his solemn vows, he lost as far as I am concerned, all credibility. Now you would have thought that if he was going to join a party it would have been one that cared for the needy and oppressed in our society but no, he became a, 'Tony crony' and fully embraced the New Labour project. He must have impressed the Evil One, Bliar because when Godman stood down, Bliar went as far as to change the constitution to allow a Catholic priest to enter Parliament. I have always wondered why Cairns was seen as so worthy of such an action.

As is usual in this constituency, he was elected by an overwhelming majority and much was made of the fact that he was born and bred in the area. He made speeches where he condemned inequality and told us that he would be the, 'champion of the poor' and as usual, the, 'poor' bought it and believed every word he said.

When Bliar lied in his teeth to justify invading Iraq, far from standing up for the vast majority of the citizens of the UK and condemning the adventure, he wholeheartedly embraced the notion and was to be seen declaring his support on any news outlet available to him. He also joined a right-wing Zionist organisation that supported Israel’s occupation and oppression of Palestine. Not much Christianity so far.

In the ten years he was MP for Inverclyde he did nothing for his constituents despite his party having a huge majority. Inverclyde quite simply, got poorer. The Tories are getting a lot of flack right now for imposing Draconian purges of the benefits system which will push many sick and disabled people into at best, abject poverty and at worse, suicide. However, what it not widely known or accepted is that these purges were designed by Labour and NOT the Tories. In 2008, Cairns in an interview on Newsnight said, “I think people have to realise is that the State coffers are not bottomless, most people would agree that our benefits system is not working and needs reform, most people on Incapacity Benefit can do some kind of work and we are going to offer them the chance to get back into work via training and encouragement and I am pressing the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions to consider a pilot scheme in my constituency”. Sounds familiar doesn’t it? That little speech was never offered to any of his constituents when he was creeping about on the hustings. No, if you asked any of the poor half-wits who voted for him, if David held such right-wing views they would have yelled at you for suggesting such a thing.

Now, let me say at once that I have no axe to grind whatsoever about homosexuality, I believe that everyone has the right to seek consensual pleasure and love from whoever they choose, as Pierre Trudeau, late PM of Canada once memorably said, “The State has no place in the bedrooms of its citizens”. David Cairns was homosexual and lived in a stable relationship with his long-term male partner and why not? However, he was far from open about this fact, indeed on at least one memorable occasion he told people on door steps , “How can you think that, I was a Catholic priest after all”. There are people today who still refuse to believe that, ‘poor David couldn’t possibly be, one of them’. We are told that he supported many gay and lesbian causes in England but the subject NEVER came up here and as far as I know he did nothing to assist any gay people in Inverclyde, ‘The love that dare not speak its name perhaps’??

It is always sad to learn of a premature death and Cairns’ death was no exception to that but it does lead me to another of his famous Tory-esque utterances. He told Gordon Brewer on Newsnight Scotland that he thought the retirement age should be raised to 70 to help with the Nation’s pension bill. When reminded by Brewer that the average life expectancy of a man in the West of Scotland was approximately 70 years old, did he think that it was appropriate to force people, if they have a job, to work until they drop. His reply was that we must all be, ‘flexible’. Of course his own pension was secure.

If any religion told me who I could or could not bed I’d tell them to sling it but Cairns seemed to accept without question the vile restrictions of his church. As I understand it, in order for a Catholic to, ‘enjoy’ the full Rites of the Church and a Requiem Mass, the deceased must be in a, ‘State of Grace’ ie., absolved of all moral errors including practicing homosexuality. As we know, he did have a Requiem Mass and so therefore he has to have either tacitly or explicitly renounced his, ‘gayness’. I therefore submit that David Cairns remained a hypocrite right to the end.

Now Broxi, whilst I would not encourage spitting on someone’s grave as you put it, you must see that Cairns was very flawed indeed and far from being a man of the people, he was a man for himself and rightly deserves derision whether alive or dead. However, as Shakespeare has it, “I come to bury Caesar not to praise him, the evil that men do lives after them , the good is oft interred with their bones, let this be so with Caesar”. And as the Bible tells us, 'By their actions ye shall know them'.

[broxiboy75]

That is an educated and measured response, and you have explained your feelings. I respect that, unlike some of the mindless bile spouted by others without any substance, creedence or explanation Tiddles.

[tiddles]

Thanks Broxi for your kind words but I think you'll find that behind the brief comments made by others lie similar views to mine, I just happen to have more time to devote to jotting down my often rambling thoughts

[broxiboy75]

But at least you justify what you say, which while I may not agree, at least gives it some foundation

[harpotheton]

Greetings and salutations to you all !!

Good Lord Tiddles, that was quite simply a bloody marvellous post. Educated, succinct and well structured. I wish my thoughts rambled like yours (apart from your Independence stance - good lord, if Jockistan was independent I don't know what I'd do....apart from moving the mansion South of the border of course) I doff my extremely expensive hat in your general direction Sir....

Toodle Pip !!

[tiddles]

Thank you Harpo, and by the way, how are the plans for this year's shoot coming along?

[rod2mc]

I have a suggestion, if you dont happen to think there will be enough grouse, I would be willing to round up some other "live" targets for you

[rod2mc]

BTW, I didnt mind Cairns that much, I wrote t him once about a problem I had with some dick from the council as they were the factors in the close I used to stay in. As soon as he intervened, this dicks boss came round and apologised, next thing i heard was the "dick" was moved and not long after removed.

[samfregreenock]

You only have to look at Cairn's voting record in parliament to understand that he was a complete bawbag.

Whatever Bliar told him to vote for, he did uncompromisingly

He supported vehemently the invasion of Iraq and the resultant deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians, he never wavered in his support of that despite the lies being exposed - he never even apologised for the deaths or his support of that.

Where was his common decency when it came to the deaths of hundreds of thousands for a lie

He supported ID cards and the billions that cost

He supported the monetary policies that bankrupted the coiuntry

He suppoprted Bliar's crawling to the zionists and the USA.

This guy was not a socialist, it is his type who destroyed the labour party and turned it into the monster it became

Honour him - jings that'll be the day........

[Wee Jock]

Cairns was nothing more than a self righteous hypocrite, a man who gave up gods law to self serve his own ends, through parliamentary law.

[tiddles]

Yep, I couldn't agree more. A hearty welcome back to Our Great Leader!!!!!!!!

All Hail the Jockster, scourge of the unrighteous!!!

[linda wallace]

dont give him a big head tidds....i have to live with him lol

[moonshadow]

I can’t find it on line but the actual debate around letting clergy men (and woman) in to parliament the law that allowed cairns to stand was a very interesting debate I think it was ether mo moland or ann widicome that spoke very well about it

[rod2mc]

Was there a problem with him standing because he was associated with the church?