Toppling lorries of Inverclyde

[si67]

Not for the first time in recent years a large lorry has toppled over on the A8 roundabout near Tesco, this time landing on the pavement. Obviously this is a dangerous situation that need addressing.

Does anyone else think that maybe, for a major route, the roundabouts between the end of the dual carriage way at Port Glasgow and the roundabout near T-Mobile are a little on the small side for long HGVs and vehicles carrying large heavy containers? Also 2 or 3 of them seem to have adverse camber.

I doubt anything will be done due to lack of space and funding, but I believe it will happen again.

[samfregreenock]

If the lory drivers drove at a sensible speed on, entering or leaving a roundabout then this wouldn't happen
Incidents like this are down to driver error, very rarely is it a truck issue

all they have to do is slow down more

[neartic]

sorry sam i drove these for 28 years the camber on all these roundabouts are all wrong inverclyde and amey know this these truck weighin at up to 44ton the camber and the angle that the ones in greenock are built i have never seen worst built ones in my life, the one at inverkip has claimed a few one right in front of a police car that claimed the driver was not do more than 20 mph amey know the camber is all wrong but will not do anything because of costs, i am fed up of hearing people blaming the driver most of them have never sat their ass in anything bigger than a ford transit, so dont come away with the crap speed causes it most of the time a idiot in a car causes it, all they have to do is use their brains sadly most car drivers in greenock dont have

[neartic]

as you said si67 th area of the roundabout is too small but if you put in a small roudabout with a red area like the one at the plaza at the port idiots in cars try to overtake you on it, the one at homebase in greenock if you dont take a set line through that roundabout the small jocky wheel under the trailer catches the road lifting the rear of the truck off the road, the one at the port where the entrance to teso is at the old yards is a nightmare in the winter because of the camber and angle of roundabout there is not one decent roundabout in greenock except the on at the bottom of sir micheal st

[samfregreenock]

Aug 25, 2012 17:07:58 GMT 1 neartic said:

sorry sam i drove these for 28 years the camber on all these roundabouts are all wrong inverclyde and amey know this these truck weighin at up to 44ton the camber and the angle that the ones in greenock are built i have never seen worst built ones in my life, the one at inverkip has claimed a few one right in front of a police car that claimed the driver was not do more than 20 mph amey know the camber is all wrong but will not do anything because of costs, i am fed up of hearing people blaming the driver most of them have never sat their ass in anything bigger than a ford transit, so dont come away with the crap speed causes it most of the time a idiot in a car causes it, all they have to do is use their brains sadly most car drivers in greenock dont have

If it isn't he driver or indeed it's all the roads fault, then how come there aren't similar accidents happening at these roundabouts every single day.
With the amount of artics travelling these roads every day and the roundabouts being, a you assert, so bad I would find it strange that they aren't happening on a very regular basis.

Speed is obviously a factor, I don't mean breaking the speed limit but faster than is safe to negotiate the road.
Speed provides momentum, that momentum if included with some circular motion will cause anything high sided to maybe topple over.
It's simple physics, slow speed equals lower momentum, this same low speed then provides low circula motion too
Just because a roundabout is on a road with a thirty limit, doesn't mean that roundabouts can be taken at that speed

Anyways the camber on the road, if it is an issue, on the A8 or A78 is not an issue for inverclyde coonsil, they are not responsible.
The people responsible are The Scottish Government, and their local maintainer Amey.
Amey only look after the maintenance, they aren't really responsible for the design of it

[neartic]

you cannot go round this roundabout at more than 15 mph you have to approach it in the inside lane go round in in the same lane you ar nearly three quaters of the way round it when you have to make your exit you are going from a tight right hand lock to a tight left hand lock, another thing drivers do not load these containers they ony make sur they are legal weight they are custom sealed so they dont know what way it is loaded,the truck are44 ton 16.5 meters in lenth the trailer is 45 feet long unless you have driven one loaded then you dont have a clue what you are talking about these have to be loaded in a certain way so not top heavy , and no driver in their right mind is going to corner fast in one of them, and if you had ever seen one of them go over it starts at the back of the trailer and is like a whiplash action so if the rear wheels of the trailer go off camber which i think that is happened here the rear wheels go into the shuck of the road the trailer dips and starts the whiplash action i know i have been in one its like a wave moving up the trailer it does not need speed its own weight does it, and the one that have gone over have been what they call high cube containers they are over 3.2 meters

[neartic]

as for it not happening every day different driver and different truck take different lines into and leaving the roundabout and traffic has a lot to do with it as well you cant just turn left or right with an artic you have to go beyond you exit or you are straight across the pavement, the camber of this roundabout shears off toward the road down by the old plaza

[si67]

Glad I got this discussion going. I have to agree with neartic regarding it being the roads not the drivers. My father drove HGVs for years and I used to sit next to him as a kid. Even now he points out corners and roundabouts he feels unsafe for large vehicles.

To be honest, some of the designs of roundabouts in this area even effect the positioning of cars and quite often you see cars drifting out of lanes on roundabouts.

Yes, once you've driven round them and felt this you would know to approach it differently next time, but that's not always the case.

[samfregreenock]

How many trucks have toppled over in the years since these roundabouts have been built 2, 3 or 4 maybe - if it was so bad they would be doing it consistently surely?

The most infamous "toppling" in Inverclyde was probably in 2004 and it was at the Bull-ring roundabout when a lorry carrying whisky toppled over (driver error) It caused tailbacks to the Erskine Bridge coming into Inverclyde.

The circular motion affects on any articulated vehicle (car & caravan/trailer, 40ft truck, anything articulated at all) are different to a solid vehicle when negotiating roundabouts or sharp bends theh back end is always having the most if not different forces acting upon it - as I said simple physics

[neartic]

when a container is loaded with whiskey the driver is not allowed near it because it is bonded he does not know how it is loaded the one at the bull ring the load which is liquid moved thats what cause thar accident

[neartic]

and if you want to go into physics in the 60

[neartic]

an american called Ralph Nader wrote a book called unsafe at any speed it was about the Chevrolet Corvair a rear engined car that flipped onto it side at any speed they found out it was the suspension that wrapped the wheel under the car when cornering , if yo look at a container truck you will see that it uses a trailer that can be 20,30 or 40 feet in length it extendsthe old trailers used to be 20 or 40 feet, these new trailers have a chassie that is four beams two slide inside the other the container sits higher than on old trailers, also they run on 6 tires called super singles the old ones ere 12 when thes trucks go round a rounabout they roll on the tires they went frome 32 and 38 ton gross to 44 ton gross weight what is happening is the nearly the same thing that ralph nader found the tires are more or less folding under the weight and stress and the truck does the rest rolls over the turning area on these roudabouts is too small an area, a car with a caravan or trailer is compleatly different from an artic

[tiddles]

Ooooh! I had a Corgi Toy Corvair. It was blue and the rear engine compartment opened to reveal the engine!.

Anyway, Near is right to a large extent but all too often I have been marauded by a huge truck as it hammered round at a far to excessive speed. It is my considered opinion that someone will die here before too long..mark my words.

[samfregreenock]

Aug 26, 2012 12:22:09 GMT 1 neartic said:

and if you want to go into physics in the 60

Eh?

[rod2mc]

Can only be one of 2 things, driver error, or bad road condition

[myfindhorn]

It all comes down to the ( lets dump it in Greenock brigade ) they never officially complain.