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Post by linda wallace on Feb 13, 2012 0:49:16 GMT 1
yea tidds it is a good debate....selkie,this site is not run with authority ie, you cant post this or that incase it offends...stuff that, that might be the telerag but its not that so dont worry.......
i dont think we will ever get a solution regards traveling folks, all land is being bought up by private organisations for housing or tesco's...well they buy everything else....
i have watched that programme, big fat gipsy weddings....i remember watching one of them and there was a wee lassie who couldnt be anymore than 14 who was getting married...my god she is just a kid........the girls have a hell of a life at their husband;s beckon call.......all that programme does is show them up in a bad light....
surely there must be some good ones around
oh tidds, jocky was looking forward to a bit of bondage...he is tied to the computer chair lol
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Post by puccini on Feb 13, 2012 0:55:36 GMT 1
Yes... excellent debate! I came in somewhat late and read to this point... I am very impressed at the care given here to honour all words and feelings.
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Post by jimwatson on Feb 13, 2012 1:27:07 GMT 1
Ewan Mc Coll - additional verses by Christy Moore
Born in the middle of the afternoon
In a horsedrawn carriage on the old A5
The big twelve wheeler shook my bed,
"You can't stay here" the policeman said.
CHORUS
You'd better get born in some place else.
So move along, get along, Move along, get along,
Go! Move! Shift!
Born in the common by a building site
Where the ground was rutted by the trail of wheels
The local Christian said to me,
"You'll lower the price of property."
CHORUS
Born at potato picking time
In a noble tent in a tatie field.
The farmer said, "The work's all done
It's time that you was moving on."
CHORUS
Born at the back of a hawthorn hedge
Where the black hole frost lay on the ground.
No eastern kings came bearing gifts.
Instead the order came to shift.
CHORUS
The eastern sky was full of stars
And one shone brighter than the rest
The wise men came so stern and strict
And brought the orders to evict
CHORUS
Wagon, tent or trailer born,
Last month, last year or in far off days.
Born here or a thousand miles away
There‚s always men nearby who'll say
CHORUS
The sleeve notes from 'Live at the Point"
has two extra verses (added by Christy)
Six in the morning out in Inchicore
The guards came through the wagon door.
John Maughan was arrested in the cold
A travelling boy just ten years old.
CHORUS
Mary Joyce was living at the side of the road
No halting place and no fixed abode.
The vigilantes came to the Darndale site
And they shot her son in the middle of the night.
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Post by jimwatson on Feb 13, 2012 1:33:21 GMT 1
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Post by Wee Jock on Feb 13, 2012 2:06:15 GMT 1
I can see points on both sides, some good some bad. My own thoughts are based on a couple things, contact with gypsies in the past good and bad.
The good first, some gypsies parked up near a military area somewhere in England, the local authority wanted them moved, the MOD wanted them moved in fact no one wanted them there. However a few weeks attitudes changed, instead of turning the place in to a coup, they had set up their own garbage collections and litter patrols, within the confines of their encampment. When my land rover broke down not far from their camp, it was one of their blokes who stopped his car and offered help. Within a couple of minutes he had the rover started and off he went. Never looked for anything just said he was glad to help.
Within a few months they had become part of the community, and it was at that point they upped sticks and left.
Bad: I used to shoot rabbits and pigeons at the Flying Scotsman depot if Southall (It's the place where Pete Waterman was restoring the loco) over one w/e a bunch of gypsies moved in nearby and within hours the place was a hell hole of shit and garbage, later that night we had the first of several attempted break ins at the depot. Mind you the last time they tried they didn't expect to run into myself and my friends all armed with rifles.
Over the course of several weeks the ground they occupied became like a swamp with toilets being emptied out on to the grass and the same with dish water. Burglaries were on the up, when finally the moved.
There are good and bad out there each has a right to exist, until the law sets out their legal needs, we have to put up with the bad.
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Post by cloakedandhidden on Feb 13, 2012 2:40:48 GMT 1
I think at least a partial solution, instead of moving these people on from Newark Castle (which just isn't going to work, as they'll be back in a few months - they've probably been using it as a campsite for decades, and it's part of their route), we police it properly. Make them clean the place up, enforce litter ordinances, if necessary CCTV the place and anyone caught breaking the rules, arrest them, get them through the courts ASAP, and let them know that we don't mind them being there, but if there's any problems we WILL catch them, we WILL prosecute them, and we WILL hold them to account.
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Post by samfregreenock on Feb 13, 2012 9:51:17 GMT 1
A couple of years ago in Embra, a young boy was knocked down in a hit n run. The polis eventually caught the perpetrator - an Irish traveller.
Instead of doing the decent thing, his "community" hid him from the authorities for months - and these are the people who profess to holding children in high esteem.
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Post by tiddles on Feb 13, 2012 15:02:06 GMT 1
Whilst accepting that something needs to be done and done soon, I'm not sure surrendering a public park to them is the way forward. It would establish a precedent which might see them occupying the Battery Park or Gourock Park.
We would have no more success in making them clean up their mess in a proper site than we have now as the police would still affect their, 'hands off' approach.
Speaking of Dale Farm, that place was and is a filthy, stinking hell hole that they made into a filthy, stinking hell hole. Take a look at it on Google Earth and you'll see how bad it was and is. Again we are looking at mainly Irish so-called travellers who DON'T travel.
We don't seem to see much of the REAL Roma gypsies because largely they pursue a different course and tend to shun the limelight. And yes, they have an unbridled hatred of the Irish travellers. Although figures are difficult to come back, estimates suggests that their are comparatively few of them in the UK.
We must also come to grips with the traveller's habit of passing off anti-social and aberrant behaviour as their, 'culture'. We must also demonstrate to them that they are not outside the law by prosecuting them for any infraction. If there is a possibility of them absconding pre-trial, they should be remanded in custody.
We must also make it clear to them they must have proper tax and insurance for their vehicles, they must make a contribution to all the things that they take advantage of like policing, fire services, public lighting and road maintenance. They must also pay their TV licence fees.
I'm sorry to keep harping on about this but they must be made to comply with the Education Acts and have their children attend full time education from ages 5 to 16. Their children need to see the world of possibilities so that they can make their own decisions about how they want to live their lives. They children must also have full and free access to medical and social care facilities. Women and girls need to be treated in accordance with the law too and not as mere chattels. Their treatment of gays is reprehensible in the extreme.
I am sorry if this annoys or offends but I do NOT see them as quaint or a defenceless minority. In this area at least, they seldom get moved on because at most times of the year, they are in or around Kelburn/Parklea and Newark Castle. They act with total impunity.
I spoke with a senior policeman this morning who told me that they always adopt a softly softly approach with them but officers have been subjected to abuse and often the children pelt them with, "unpleasant materials". If any of my kids did that, they'd be well on the way to a Children's Panel Hearing.
Why do they come to this area? Well they apparently claim that it is their, 'traditional' site and it is their, 'right to follow their traditions'. There is some truth to this assertion in that they have for many generations camped at various places on the roads behind Bishopton and Langbank, hence the name, 'Tinker's Woods'. However, these, 'traditional' sites date from the time when they did their tinkering with pots and pans etc., and farm work. They did not come to put in shoddy driveways and do bogus and incompetent repairs to houses. They did not as far as I know, 'recycle' other people's metalwork.
I think the Scottish Government should take the initiative and have a commission into how we deal with the travellers and how they deal with us.
When I was a lad, the tinkers came and went without incident and aside from the odd be-shawled women coming to your door selling sundries, they were more or less harmless. Times have changed and so has their raison d'etre. Threats, intimidation and larceny is the name of the game and these are certainly not a cultural right.
We have enough trouble from our indigenous crime syndicates and their drug-sodden clients, we don't need the services of mobile vagabonds as a supplement.
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Post by samfregreenock on Feb 13, 2012 15:19:54 GMT 1
I think at least a partial solution, instead of moving these people on from Newark Castle (which just isn't going to work, as they'll be back in a few months - they've probably been using it as a campsite for decades, and it's part of their route), we police it properly. Make them clean the place up, enforce litter ordinances, if necessary CCTV the place and anyone caught breaking the rules, arrest them, get them through the courts ASAP, and let them know that we don't mind them being there, but if there's any problems we WILL catch them, we WILL prosecute them, and we WILL hold them to account. I lived in the port most of my life, it's only in the past few years that they have turned up here making a pig-sty of the place - same with parklea. Years ago when the mater was the district midwife in port glasgow, she always had at least one "tinker" family on her books - these were itinerant scottish tinkers who lived in what (i think) are called benders. Mainly out by parkhill, on the "middle road" Irish traveller families are making their presence felt all over Europe, traffiking in what can only be described as slave labour. Similar family groups of itinerant (of irish descent) thieves operate all over the USA too |
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Post by tiddles on Feb 13, 2012 15:38:17 GMT 1
Yes sammy, it's no coincidence that as soon as Ireland began to get tough with them, we suffered the consequences.
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Post by Wee Jock on Feb 13, 2012 20:03:16 GMT 1
Drop oor Dunky a wee email, put him in the picture. Mind you having said that he'd prob vote in favour of the gypo's
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Post by tiddles on Feb 13, 2012 20:05:06 GMT 1
LOL You'd have to draw him wee pictures and use wee toy caravans to get through to him.
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Post by Wee Jock on Feb 13, 2012 20:15:58 GMT 1
I'll maybe drop him an email over the next day or 2 to find out what the labour Party stance is.
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Post by tiddles on Feb 13, 2012 20:16:51 GMT 1
I dare you!
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Post by samfregreenock on Feb 13, 2012 20:18:03 GMT 1
I'll maybe drop him an email over the next day or 2 to find out what the labour Party stance is. will he have to contact london to get the "pavlovan" response |
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Post by tiddles on Feb 13, 2012 20:43:01 GMT 1
Well he IS barking!
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rod2mc
Amber Member 
Posts: 442
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Post by rod2mc on Feb 13, 2012 20:45:44 GMT 1
tell them to sling their hook!!!!!
I hear theres a lot of ground going up Govan way, something about a fitba club or somit
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Post by tiddles on Feb 13, 2012 20:48:27 GMT 1
ROTFL!!!! Mind you, on that other subject, who in their right mind would have allowed that sleazy little man to take over a major football club?
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Post by samfregreenock on Feb 13, 2012 20:55:49 GMT 1
ROTFL!!!! Mind you, on that other subject, who in their right mind would have allowed that sleazy little man to take over a major football club? Now now - that's SIR David Murray your talking about |
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Post by tiddles on Feb 13, 2012 20:57:50 GMT 1
Oh Murray is a nasty piece of work. I met him once and had to stifle the urge to stick the heid on him.
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Post by samfregreenock on Feb 13, 2012 20:59:25 GMT 1
Oh Murray is a nasty piece of work. I met him once and had to stifle the urge to stick the heid on him. You are of course exactly right When it comes to Rangers being in the shit - he hasn't got a leg to stand on |
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Post by tiddles on Feb 13, 2012 21:06:49 GMT 1
LOL. He has a very arrogant attitude. I met him at a dinner organised by one to the scum sucking drug companies. One of my fellow GPs was merrily engaged in arse-licking the then Mr Murray until he was told by Mr Mimtec to, "f*ck off".
We often used to get little freebies like that until the drug companies or as I like to call them, 'pushers', pulled the plug. They would come in and offer lots of goodies on the understanding that we would prescribe their shitey potions to our innocent patients. I never did but I often got nice dinners and once got a very nice 26" TV. Ah innocent days!!!!!
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Post by samfregreenock on Feb 13, 2012 21:40:14 GMT 1
LOL. He has a very arrogant attitude. I met him at a dinner organised by one to the scum sucking drug companies. One of my fellow GPs was merrily engaged in arse-licking the then Mr Murray until he was told by Mr Mimtec to, "f*ck off". We often used to get little freebies like that until the drug companies or as I like to call them, 'pushers', pulled the plug. They would come in and offer lots of goodies on the understanding that we would prescribe their shitey potions to our innocent patients. I never did but I often got nice dinners and once got a very nice 26" TV. Ah innocent days!!!!! Ah Grimtec |
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Post by Wee Jock on Feb 20, 2012 3:21:07 GMT 1
Sent the fllowing Dear Mr McNeil, I was wondering if you can tell me what stance the Labour party takes towards travelling folk taking over council land and turning the area into a shithole for want of a better description, every year there's the same problem with these travellers turning up and the police seem powerless to stop them. I'm not sure that the local council are much good because instead of learning from previous years, they continue to allow this takeover and trashing of public land to continue. Your comments would be most gratefully received Yours Patrick Wallace |
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Post by samfregreenock on Feb 20, 2012 10:42:54 GMT 1
Sent the fllowing Dear Mr McNeil, I was wondering if you can tell me what stance the Labour party takes towards travelling folk taking over council land and turning the area into a shithole for want of a better description, every year there's the same problem with these travellers turning up and the police seem powerless to stop them. I'm not sure that the local council are much good because instead of learning from previous years, they continue to allow this takeover and trashing of public land to continue. Your comments would be most gratefully received Yours Patrick Wallace Jock, can you not have been a wee bit merr straight to the point - wee donkey won't understand that erudite stuff you sent? |
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Post by tiddles on Feb 20, 2012 13:47:49 GMT 1
He'll understand the word, "shithole"
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Post by Wee Jock on Feb 20, 2012 17:18:39 GMT 1
Mr McNeils reply so far.
Dear Mr Wallace
Thank you for your e-mail. Perhaps you could confirm your full postal address for my records.
Regards
Duncan McNeil MSP
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Post by myfindhorn on Feb 20, 2012 17:22:11 GMT 1
Jock that means you are on his hit list or...........................maybe he wants to dodge your address.
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Post by tiddles on Feb 20, 2012 18:22:59 GMT 1
That's it Jock, wee Mojo will appear at your door with a hatchet. Mind you, he'll be as crap at hatcheting as he is at everything else! Keep Santa Paws away just in case.
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Post by Wee Jock on Feb 20, 2012 21:03:08 GMT 1
Maybe he thinks I'm a traveller trying to catch him out....lol
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